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	<title>Comments on: Taking Heat from the Watch Dogs</title>
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	<link>http://originsproject.org/2009/07/taking-heat-from-the-watch-dogs/</link>
	<description>The Origins Project</description>
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		<title>By: Georgina</title>
		<link>http://originsproject.org/2009/07/taking-heat-from-the-watch-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-849</link>
		<dc:creator>Georgina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 04:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://originsproject.org/?p=409#comment-849</guid>
		<description>I hear you ,we all will answer for our time.. For what it&#039;s worth I am for you, keep keepen on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear you ,we all will answer for our time.. For what it&#8217;s worth I am for you, keep keepen on.</p>
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		<title>By: James Petticrew</title>
		<link>http://originsproject.org/2009/07/taking-heat-from-the-watch-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-844</link>
		<dc:creator>James Petticrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://originsproject.org/?p=409#comment-844</guid>
		<description>Erwin you are bang on. Those of us connected to the Nazarene church who are trying to live out the denominational value of being missional have recently been under attack by a group which claims that being missional is little more than a smokescreen for introducing eastern spirituality to the Church! (I wonder where they think Christianity came from, the Mid-West of the States? Israel was in the East last time I looked!)

One of their main attacks is that we have been preaching &quot;another Jesus&quot; that is a crime I am happy to plead guilty to. I don&#039;t want to preach a Jesus who wants to make us comfortable and happy while he meets our every need. I am abhor the emasculated Christ I hear about in so many comfortable churches. I want to proclaim and follow a radical Jesus who calls on us to pick up our cross and follow Him in the way of sacrificial servanthood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erwin you are bang on. Those of us connected to the Nazarene church who are trying to live out the denominational value of being missional have recently been under attack by a group which claims that being missional is little more than a smokescreen for introducing eastern spirituality to the Church! (I wonder where they think Christianity came from, the Mid-West of the States? Israel was in the East last time I looked!)</p>
<p>One of their main attacks is that we have been preaching &#8220;another Jesus&#8221; that is a crime I am happy to plead guilty to. I don&#8217;t want to preach a Jesus who wants to make us comfortable and happy while he meets our every need. I am abhor the emasculated Christ I hear about in so many comfortable churches. I want to proclaim and follow a radical Jesus who calls on us to pick up our cross and follow Him in the way of sacrificial servanthood.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael W. Kruse</title>
		<link>http://originsproject.org/2009/07/taking-heat-from-the-watch-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-839</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael W. Kruse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://originsproject.org/?p=409#comment-839</guid>
		<description>We have been given four missions:

Creation Commandments

1. Exercise dominion over creation bring our world to its full potential ... the cultural mandate.

2. Love God and love neighbor.

Redemption Commandments

3. &quot;I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.&quot; (Jn. 13:34-35) The New Commandment

4. Go and make disciples ... the Great Commission.

Missional has to include all four.

&quot;...mobilize the church for the purpose of fulfilling God’s mission of reconciling the world to himself.&quot;

But reconciliation is not just between God and individuals. We are reconciled into God&#039;s reconciling community. Reconciled communities reach out the world draw people in ... and this presumes a community exists for individuals to be brought into. As #3 above suggests, it means communities that are inwardly focused enough in their care for each other that others are drawn to the community. That community is going to have rituals and language that in some measure differs from others because the community has a different narrative. The mission is both about gathering in and sending out. 

Which is more important to breathing ... inhaling or exhaling? So the church has erred in its obsession with inhalation. Let&#039;s not compound the error by focusing purely on exhalation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have been given four missions:</p>
<p>Creation Commandments</p>
<p>1. Exercise dominion over creation bring our world to its full potential &#8230; the cultural mandate.</p>
<p>2. Love God and love neighbor.</p>
<p>Redemption Commandments</p>
<p>3. &#8220;I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.&#8221; (Jn. 13:34-35) The New Commandment</p>
<p>4. Go and make disciples &#8230; the Great Commission.</p>
<p>Missional has to include all four.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;mobilize the church for the purpose of fulfilling God’s mission of reconciling the world to himself.&#8221;</p>
<p>But reconciliation is not just between God and individuals. We are reconciled into God&#8217;s reconciling community. Reconciled communities reach out the world draw people in &#8230; and this presumes a community exists for individuals to be brought into. As #3 above suggests, it means communities that are inwardly focused enough in their care for each other that others are drawn to the community. That community is going to have rituals and language that in some measure differs from others because the community has a different narrative. The mission is both about gathering in and sending out. </p>
<p>Which is more important to breathing &#8230; inhaling or exhaling? So the church has erred in its obsession with inhalation. Let&#8217;s not compound the error by focusing purely on exhalation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Beise</title>
		<link>http://originsproject.org/2009/07/taking-heat-from-the-watch-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-837</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Beise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://originsproject.org/?p=409#comment-837</guid>
		<description>Clearly those who step out of their own culture and want to be effective in whatever project they are attempting will let many of their own ways of doing things fall to the ground. What is more challenging is to change the priority from a religious one that is focused on conformity and order to a spiritual one that is focused on transformation and movement. Being changed, unleashing potential, discovering and becoming who we were meant to be.

Sounds like another one of the core values of Mosaic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly those who step out of their own culture and want to be effective in whatever project they are attempting will let many of their own ways of doing things fall to the ground. What is more challenging is to change the priority from a religious one that is focused on conformity and order to a spiritual one that is focused on transformation and movement. Being changed, unleashing potential, discovering and becoming who we were meant to be.</p>
<p>Sounds like another one of the core values of Mosaic.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Stephens</title>
		<link>http://originsproject.org/2009/07/taking-heat-from-the-watch-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-835</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Stephens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://originsproject.org/?p=409#comment-835</guid>
		<description>P.S.  This prof is one of the biggest proponents of missional ecclesiology at our seminary, and I am doing a Missional Church independent study with him this summer.

P.P.S.  Your book, Seizing Your Divine Moment, played a large role in my planting of a very outside-the-box church about 3-and-a-half years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.  This prof is one of the biggest proponents of missional ecclesiology at our seminary, and I am doing a Missional Church independent study with him this summer.</p>
<p>P.P.S.  Your book, Seizing Your Divine Moment, played a large role in my planting of a very outside-the-box church about 3-and-a-half years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Stephens</title>
		<link>http://originsproject.org/2009/07/taking-heat-from-the-watch-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-834</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Stephens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://originsproject.org/?p=409#comment-834</guid>
		<description>Erwin,

You said, &quot;We will not forsake the Word of God for the traditions of men,&quot; and I assume you would say you would not forsake it for anything.  However, this commitment conflicts with your commitment to avoiding &quot;traditions that mean . . . nothing to a person searching for God&quot;—that is, unless you intend the word &quot;nothing&quot; to be taken literally  (which, of course, would vastly diminish the number of Christian practices to which you are referring).  In any regard, much of what the church is called to do (e.g., the ordinances) is unavoidably and necessarily foreign to unbelievers.  Moreover, a total disregard of traditions or practices that edify believers means a total disregard of the church and thus a total abandonment of the gospel mission workforce, which obviously would undermine the mission.  That said, I think the cultural gap between believers and unbelievers is not as wide as is often assumed.  I&#039;m with you on making sure that the church&#039;s culture reflects this narrow disparity.

On a different note, one of my mentors, who happens to be a seminary prof at a prominent evangelical seminary, conveyed major disappointment over your message at the Exponential Conference this year because of your apparent attempt to wiggle out from underneath the exclusiveness of the gospel to those who have embraced Christ by faith and the reality of hell for those who don&#039;t.  That, rather than an emphasis on the missio Dei, is what will increasingly arouse the indignation of your orthodox co-laborers in the gospel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erwin,</p>
<p>You said, &#8220;We will not forsake the Word of God for the traditions of men,&#8221; and I assume you would say you would not forsake it for anything.  However, this commitment conflicts with your commitment to avoiding &#8220;traditions that mean . . . nothing to a person searching for God&#8221;—that is, unless you intend the word &#8220;nothing&#8221; to be taken literally  (which, of course, would vastly diminish the number of Christian practices to which you are referring).  In any regard, much of what the church is called to do (e.g., the ordinances) is unavoidably and necessarily foreign to unbelievers.  Moreover, a total disregard of traditions or practices that edify believers means a total disregard of the church and thus a total abandonment of the gospel mission workforce, which obviously would undermine the mission.  That said, I think the cultural gap between believers and unbelievers is not as wide as is often assumed.  I&#8217;m with you on making sure that the church&#8217;s culture reflects this narrow disparity.</p>
<p>On a different note, one of my mentors, who happens to be a seminary prof at a prominent evangelical seminary, conveyed major disappointment over your message at the Exponential Conference this year because of your apparent attempt to wiggle out from underneath the exclusiveness of the gospel to those who have embraced Christ by faith and the reality of hell for those who don&#8217;t.  That, rather than an emphasis on the missio Dei, is what will increasingly arouse the indignation of your orthodox co-laborers in the gospel.</p>
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		<title>By: Truth - takes some heat &#124; - ARThodoxy -</title>
		<link>http://originsproject.org/2009/07/taking-heat-from-the-watch-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-832</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth - takes some heat &#124; - ARThodoxy -</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 00:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://originsproject.org/?p=409#comment-832</guid>
		<description>[...] http://originsproject.org/?p=409  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://originsproject.org/?p=409" rel="nofollow">http://originsproject.org/?p=409</a>  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Donny Nelson</title>
		<link>http://originsproject.org/2009/07/taking-heat-from-the-watch-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-828</link>
		<dc:creator>Donny Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:27:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://originsproject.org/?p=409#comment-828</guid>
		<description>Amen, I followed the path Christ put me on, and set a blaze here in my own backyard.  But what I found was that the Watch Dogs brought the hammer down and I ended up on the street because it made them uncomfortable.  I can only hope and pray that no one will have to go through that.  It almost destroyed my walk, my faith and God&#039;s mission for me.  It was the hardest thing I have ever had to experience.  We fly over to many mission fields to get to other mission fields.  We need Christ in the US now more than ever.  I couldn&#039;t agree with Erwin more.  Bring on the heat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen, I followed the path Christ put me on, and set a blaze here in my own backyard.  But what I found was that the Watch Dogs brought the hammer down and I ended up on the street because it made them uncomfortable.  I can only hope and pray that no one will have to go through that.  It almost destroyed my walk, my faith and God&#8217;s mission for me.  It was the hardest thing I have ever had to experience.  We fly over to many mission fields to get to other mission fields.  We need Christ in the US now more than ever.  I couldn&#8217;t agree with Erwin more.  Bring on the heat.</p>
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		<title>By: Marilyn</title>
		<link>http://originsproject.org/2009/07/taking-heat-from-the-watch-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-827</link>
		<dc:creator>Marilyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://originsproject.org/?p=409#comment-827</guid>
		<description>Well said - since my encounter with Catalyst West Coast &amp; Origins, I am so aware of my neighbours and my community; I realize that as a disciple of Christ I have been a tremendously lousy neighbour -- busy running past my &quot;mission field&quot; in order to go work at the church where I am a pastor.  I am so tired of bubble-wrapping the message and &quot;stroking the saints&quot; in order to be politically correct -- fulfilling church policy -- keeping it safe, comfortable and tidy!!!  God has called us to so much more; thanks for keeping it in front of us through Origins.  My neighbours have now started inviting me to dinner and parties; I&#039;m volunteering at Fringe Festivals and getting out there... thanks for the incentive and motivation to stay on the front lines!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said &#8211; since my encounter with Catalyst West Coast &amp; Origins, I am so aware of my neighbours and my community; I realize that as a disciple of Christ I have been a tremendously lousy neighbour &#8212; busy running past my &#8220;mission field&#8221; in order to go work at the church where I am a pastor.  I am so tired of bubble-wrapping the message and &#8220;stroking the saints&#8221; in order to be politically correct &#8212; fulfilling church policy &#8212; keeping it safe, comfortable and tidy!!!  God has called us to so much more; thanks for keeping it in front of us through Origins.  My neighbours have now started inviting me to dinner and parties; I&#8217;m volunteering at Fringe Festivals and getting out there&#8230; thanks for the incentive and motivation to stay on the front lines!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Lutke</title>
		<link>http://originsproject.org/2009/07/taking-heat-from-the-watch-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-818</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Lutke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://originsproject.org/?p=409#comment-818</guid>
		<description>I agree with what you say here but I haven&#039;t always.  I thought that church existed for worship, community, sacraments, etc and that mission was just another activity.  In a missional church where mission is the organizing purpose,how do these other functions fit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with what you say here but I haven&#8217;t always.  I thought that church existed for worship, community, sacraments, etc and that mission was just another activity.  In a missional church where mission is the organizing purpose,how do these other functions fit?</p>
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